Eight Questions With Sonzai Games (Developer Interview)

2023 has gone down in history as one of the most legendary years in gaming history. But unfortunately, that also means that plenty of great video games went overlooked. I reached out to Sergio Matta, lead Game Designer and Programmer for 2023’s Bat Boy. With it’s tight gameplay, fantastic sprites, music, and fun story concepts; Bat Boy immediately clicked with me. Here are the questions I was lucky enough to ask him:

1. So first of all, I’d like to thank you again for taking the time to answer these questions. I decided I wanted to reach out after seeing your tweet celebrating the one year anniversary of Bat Boy. In the tweet, you mention how it had 79 reviews on Steam; which in my opinion, is a great disservice to a fantastic game. Since it’s now been over a year, do you have any reflections on the game? Any thoughts that didn’t immediately come to you a month or two after release?

For me, it's always a pleasure to talk games. And if they are my own, even better hehe.

Bat Boy was made on a shoestring budget, and so development was supposed to be done in a year. In the end it only took a couple more months. So, in that sense, everything had to be done in the most optimal way possible.

Thinking about it now, I am very satisfied with the result.

I honestly think that even if it took me twice as long to develop it, the game wouldn't be any more fun. It would just have a little more content.

2. Usually when an indie game that wears a retro aesthetic comes out, people immediately see references or inspirations. I smiled when I recognized two Castlevania references in the level Molten Mines. Am I right at sensing a Tomba/Tombi influence with the pig enemies? If not, where did that idea come from? I love all of their different forms; especially the ones in the baseball uniforms. Are there any media aside from games that influenced Bat Boy? Any movies, TV shows, or music?

Yes, you got it right! Tombi was definitely an inspiration.

I wanted to have very expressive enemies where it was fun to just watch them move around. For me, there are two animals that fit this role: monkeys and pigs. The bad guy in my previous game (Super Sami Roll) was a monkey so this time they had to be pigs, and what better reference than Tombi. 

Other than games, a very influential aesthetic for character costumes is Japanese sentai-style shows, where the heroes wear cool and colorful armor as outfits. Power Rangers is probably the best-known example of this. 

3. Despite those influences, I really think Bat Boy shines as something unique, and stands on its own. The story of high school athletes that become sports-themed superheroes at night is really cute. Where did that idea sprout from? Were there any sports related gameplay mechanics that got scrapped from the final game?

Inspiration for the story and main characters came from the game Rival Schools and, to a lesser extent, Persona.

In Rival School, all the characters are high school students who use their sports skills to fight each other. I always found that a pretty interesting concept. So I decide to use that idea but transform them into heroes instead. And that's when I looked to the Persona series for inspiration.

Regarding scrapped mechanics. Well, I really tried to represent each sport with a unique ability related to it. I think I managed to do that with the only exception of soccer. When you think about soccer, the obvious ability would be to simply have a projectile-based skill where you kick a soccer ball. And in fact, that was the original plan. However, abilities like that already existed in the game, so it wouldn't really work. So I decided to think about it from a different perspective. The soccer skill is obtained very late in the game, so I thought about a type of skill that was powerful and would kill multiple enemies at once, since that would be useful in the more difficult levels. And that's how I came up with the Ace Stomp. It's not really related to soccer, but at least it has a similar mechanic to what the boss you get it from uses when you fight him.  I was hoping I could have more time to do a couple more levels so these mechanics can be used more widely. But like I said before, overall I'm very satisfied with the final game. 

4. Last question specifically regarding Bat Boy; I feel like we’re seeing a trend where a lot of indie developers who gain popularity due to a specific title avoid making direct sequels. Yacht Club isn’t making Shovel Knight 2. Sabotage isn’t making The Messenger 2. EXOK isn’t making Celeste 2. I see you’re currently developing a sequel for your 3D platformer, Super Sami Roll. Do you see sequel potential in Bat Boy?

This answer may not be what you expected. I would like to continue Bat Boy with another game, but unless something changes I can't.

Without going into details, I had to give up the IP (Intellectual Property) as part of the conditions to obtain funding to develop the game. So I currently don't own the IP and therefore I can't just make a new game.

That said, that doesn't mean it's impossible. It could still happen if the intellectual property owner wants to do it too. But ultimately, it's not up to me. 

Ok now just a couple of questions regarding indie development and development in general.

5. Speaking of Super Sami Roll (which I need to check out very soon because I love 3D platformers); do you have a preference for working in 2D versus 3D? Do you think one outshines the other in any aspects?

If you are going to try Sami, keep in mind that it is not an easy game! For some reason, the average difficulty in 3D platform games is quite low compared to other genres. That's not the case with SSR, it is a challenging game. So I always feel like I should give fair warning :P 

I like to alternate between making 2D and 3D games. So after Super Sami Roll 2, I will be making a 2D game.

As a player, I love both styles of games equally. As a developer, it's generally easier and faster to make a 2D game. So making a 2D game gives me a chance to take a breather after a long 3D game development. 

It is also a very different experience to make a 2D and a 3D game so alternating them keeps it fun!

6. It used to feel like up until the mid 2010’s, I could keep up with most indie games. It always felt like the big ones that were truly well designed, or doing something unique, rose to the top and appeared on everybody’s radar. But now there are just so many indie games. Not to mention all the big budget AAA games as well. If Bat Boy released 5 years ago, I think it would have 4-5 times the amount of reviews/players on Steam. It’s a really great game, and I believe it deserves more attention. How do you feel about the current state of indie development and the market? Do you like the competition, or can it be intimidating?

I agree with you.

As a player I enjoy having a lot of games to choose from. As a developer, it has become a very competitive environment where it is difficult to stand out.

I'm also terrible at marketing, so my games are generally not well known and sales reflect that.

Many indie developers find themselves in the same situation as me. The only reason I manage to survive is that even though I established Sonzai Games 4 years ago, it's still just me at the studio. So I don't need games to do very well financially in order to keep the lights on. That being said, I eventually want to become a team of 4 or 5 people. For that I really need to improve my marketing skills!

7. I find on social media and YouTube comments, that people have begun to categorize indie games as to degrade them or write them off. For example, a lot of people unfortunately see a 2D pixelated indie game now and go “Oh wow, another one of these?” Do you see any cliché ideas or typical trappings in current indie games? If so, do you try to avoid them, or do you lean into them?

This one is tricky.

Many indie developers like me want to make games as original as possible, experiment with unique mechanics, and offer something that can't be found in any other game. However, that's also the riskiest thing you can do as a developer because there are more things that can go wrong and you could alienate part of the audience.

That's why no AAA studio does that. They just keep "making the same game", a game with a formula that has proven to sell well. 

So if you're a hobbyist indie developer, I'd say go for it and make your dream game as crazy as you want (at least I would). But if this is your job and you need to profit from your game to survive, things are a little more complicated. You have to find a balance between the wild and unique ideas you have in mind and the established ideas and formulas that have proven to be fun for most players and will help your game sell. 

Between the 2 games that I have released as Sonzai Games, I would say that Super Sami Roll is the wild one, where there is really no other game like it in the market.

With Bat Boy I took a safer route where, while I added my own ideas, mechanics and level designs, it more closely follows what a classic 2D retro platformer is. For this reason, I knew the review scores would be higher for Bat Boy as the target audience is also wider.

That said, I am equally proud of both. With SSR I tried to innovate and offer a unique experience while with BB I tried to perfect an existing genre as much as I could.

8. Lastly, I just wanted to give you a space to round off any comments, ideas or thoughts that didn’t fit anywhere else. Or, if you just want to plug your currently in development game, Super Sami Roll 2, please feel free to! Thank you again for your time.

Thanks for giving me the space to talk about my games.

Being an indie developer is a dream job. Most developers aren't in the industry for the money (and if you are, I'm afraid you chose the wrong job), so you can see the passion in their games.

At the same time, it is also a very tough industry, especially today with so many competitors. I don't have statistics, but I bet most independent studios have to close their doors within the first few years of existence.

So what I would like to ask the players is to be understanding. Making a good game is very difficult and no one will achieve it on the first try. Please support indie developers as most of them are passionate people trying to offer you a unique and fun experience that you won't find in your standard Call Of Duty or Fifa. 

Regarding Super Sami Roll 2, it is intended to be a better version and an evolution of Super Sami Roll. Not only in its graphics, number of playable characters, mechanics, etc. but also in some of the aspects that people considered weaker about the original game. Mainly its somewhat steep difficulty curve and lack of accessibility options. 

I'm incredibly excited and encourage anyone interested to put the game on their wishlist and follow it on Kickstarter. The campaign is going to be epic! 

Steam page: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2798320

Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sonzaigames/super-sami-roll-2

Formerly known Twitter: https://x.com/SuperSamiRoll

Once again, thank you very much for the interview! 

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Thanks again to Sergio for giving me the time to answer my questions! If you haven’t yet, please consider trying out Bat Boy!